El Militante interviewed Jacobo Acosta, a leading member of the UNT in Caracas and member of a local communal council, about the development of workers’ councils and the PSUV.
El Militante: As a revolutionary trade union leader and, at the same time, member of a Communal Council in your parish, what are your impressions on the debate developing within the labour movement about workers' councils?
Jacobo Acosta: From a revolutionary point of view the workers' councils must be linked to the "fifth engine of the revolution" as laid out by President Chávez, which is about the "explosion of popular power" and the development of communal councils. We should develop labour councils at every workplace and these should be linked to the communal councils. Some union leaders fear that the labour councils may end up liquidating the unions. I believe that the labour councils should work in co-operation with the union and the communal councils. Each engine of the revolution must be linked to the others. What is the sense, for instance, of the "Mision of Moral and Enlightenment" (Misión Moral y Luces) if this is not taken into the factories? The working class is fundamental to the building of socialism and if we are able to develop the workers' councils in the workplaces and integrate into the communal councils the result could be similar to the 1917 revolution led by Lenin, with soviets - Workers', Soldiers' and Peasants' Councils.
El Militante: What do you think of the PSUV and the call of President Chávez for the creation of Socialist Battalions?
Jacobo Acosta: At this moment there is a huge debate about the creation of the PSUV. Amongst the parties that were members of the "Bloc of Change" we see that some hesitate and others have jumped on board the PSUV initiative in an attempt to control it. This demonstrates that the backbone of the United Party cannot be the parties now which are now dissolving but the social and popular organisations and, especially, the labour movement. The CMR must play an important role there. Concerning those parties that have not joined, the Communist Party of Venezuela is a historical party with militants who are very much identified with the party, they need time to discuss. PODEMOS and PPT have leaders used to sharing out quotas of power, and they do not want to abandon that.
We do not want to see the same thing happen with the Socialist Battalions as with the UBEs, which were born as an expression of the rank and file but were left isolated; they were disbanded or, in some cases, were finally controlled by the bureaucracy. The Battalions are different because they are going to be linked to the communal councils and labour councils and must grow with the help of the third engine of the revolution "Moral y Luces" (Moral and Enlightenment). Let us remember that the central idea of "Moral and Enlightenment" is the transformation of society and as well as consciousness.